bugc
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Message Posted: Jun 28, 2007 11:39:41 AM
I sent an email to GM asking how to resolve the issue of towns posted in the wrong area. I have not yet received a reply.
I just added more discussion in the Master Station List Improvements/Fixes MASTER TOPIC.
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 28, 2007 7:41:24 AM
As someone who works with computers, I can tell they need a very good SQL admin to work with them. Almost every issue I have come across can be solved by storing ALL of the gas buddy data in SQL server. Properly written queries will return the correct data set to the user. All of the MSL issues arise for just the reasons jasilva states. A full revamp with a good SQL database will eliminate these.
I guess we are going to have to work with what we have. No, I am not a SQL admin, but have worked with some good ones, so I know what can be done with it. Would it be a lot of work for gas buddy? Yes, at first, but less work after. Want to change a site boundaries? Just change the query, and problem fixed. All data should be stored together on SQL. It could be trained to flag duplicate entires on the MSL, and point it out to the person entering the data, and make you choose to edit the existing, or replace existing. It can do the same with the regular gas entries. According to jasilva's link to the NPN station count, there are only 167,000 or so gas stations nationwide. SQL handles MILLIONS of records quickly and easily.
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jasilva
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Message Posted: Jun 28, 2007 7:13:10 AM
dick writes:
> Another fine mess on the MSL
When bugc asked the GB.com folks to do the town reorganization this was one of the recognized issues with doing this (and of course because of GB.com's useless artificial site boundaries)! I think bugc had asked JT (or GM) to fix up these entries but maybe they never got to it.
The whole GB.com metro/state web site approach is really flawed!! First, there is NO reason why the MSL should need to reflect these artificial boundaries; a station exists ONCE, regardless of which site the user was on when they entered the station information. Second, if GB really wants to maintain this site stuff is should be used ONLY for initial display of stations in an area and for 'load balancing' of the GB.com server infrastructure. If the metro/state sites were ONLY used for initial display and load balancing then there wouldn't be an issue with folks who travel 'across' GB.com's artificial boundaries to post prices or create/update MSL station entries!! Oh well, I will not hold my breath for this though ...
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 27, 2007 2:21:53 PM
Another fine mess on the MSL. If I search Massachusetts|All of Massachusetts|Tewksbury I get 15 stations. If I search Massachusetts|Boston|Tewksbury I get 10 stations. Finally if I search Massachusetts|Massachusetts|other (typing in Tewksbury), I get 5 stations. I hope it gets fixed soon!
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jasilva
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Message Posted: Jun 27, 2007 1:36:04 PM
The Hess duplicate may be a result of Tewksbury moving back and forth between Boston and MA sites --- bugc had mentioned that there is (or has been) a 'tension' between folks who believe it should be in one or the other site. With the latest restructing of towns in Boston (and MA?) I believe Tewksbury is now on the Boston site!!
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 27, 2007 1:30:16 PM
The Citgo is 1/2 verified, as is the closed Citgo. There seems to be duplicates of the Hess at 1910 Andover St Tewksbury , MA 01876 . I see them when I use the Massachusetts|All of Massachusetts|Tewksbury approach to the MSL. One (yours) is 1/2 verified, the other by DonPilot is not verified.
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bugc
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Message Posted: Jun 27, 2007 12:23:46 PM
OK, it is a Citgo and A & B Automotive
They had a sawhorse with a sign "pumps closed". I don't know what that means. MSL updated.
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 10:19:41 PM
Gotcha - Sorry, misunderstood. Did not mean to push.
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bugc
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 10:08:02 PM
I tried searching again. It might be:
A & B Automotive
1258 Main St, Tewksbury, MA
(978) 851-0426
I'll need to call or go there to be sure.
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bugc
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 10:03:32 PM
bugc - Sunoco
1240 Main St
Tewksbury , MA still needs the descriptive location.....
Yes. I'm not sure if it is Sunoco or Citgo. I stopped there in the dark, assuming I could verify details on the web. Someone will have to check. Maybe I will do it tomorrow. In any case, I have not been able to find it in any of the lists or searches, although it is clearly seen in the satelite view. The business is probably listed as auto repair.
I only guessed at the 1240. It is very close to the Shell station at 1220.
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 3:34:21 PM
I had not seen either. They are quite interesting. Thanks for the links. I passed them on to some people in Maine. They are trying to figure out how many stations are in Maine.
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jasilva
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 3:01:03 PM
The NPA 2006 Station Count URL is:
http://www.npnweb.com/uploads/researchdata/2006/USAnnualStationCount/06-stationcount.pdf
It's not a list of stations but a list of station COUNTS per state!!
For stations I look at DI Fuel List page which has the major gas vendor's station locators (which you probably already know about).
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 11:44:47 AM
bugc - Sunoco
1240 Main St
Tewksbury , MA still needs the descriptive location, and I noticed there is no zip code. I don't know how important to gas buddy it is, but probably should be added for completeness.
Your other Tewksbury stations are 1/2 verified. I've been to that Dunkin Donuts before......... (Mobil - On the Run)
[Edited by: dickc49 at 6/26/2007 11:47:01 AM EST]
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bugc
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 10:56:31 AM
Regarding my comment below of not seeing page 2 of the Twksbury station list. I now see it and see the "missing" Shell station.
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bugc
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 10:54:16 AM
Thanks, Dickc. I hadn't noticed the add description. I added one for the J&S and Getty.
Deleted stations were formerly retained in the database and could be recovered if you know th ID#. For example, when I edited the description for the Getty, the header shows SM_ID=144709. At one time the ID changed when the station was edited. I don't think that still happens, but I will watch for it.
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 7:48:29 AM
bugc - I looked at your stations, and the Getty, J&S Auto, and the Sunoco in Tewsbury, are all beefing that they need a descriptive location added. If I get a chance later today, I will look up the specifics on these stations and verify them once you have a chance to fix the descriptive location error.
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bugc
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 7:23:53 AM
jasilva- re: "Have you been busy adding stations to the Boston MSL?" I recently added about 3 in Tewksbury. One I dictated as a Sunoco on Main St just south of Chandler. I then also dictated "Citgo" so I'm not sure. I was not able to find the station with Google, Yahoo, etc. I'll havew to go by and verify. Where is the NPA list? Is it there?
I also completed verification of a couple. While searching Tewksbury, the Shell at 1220 Main and Chandler shows up as a red pin on the map but not in the sataion list.....
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 7:22:59 AM
jasilva - Can you provide a link to that NPA data? When I Google NPA, the first hit is for the National Pigeons Association. When I saw that, I knew Google was not going to help. The link could be quite useful. I don't like to list stations sight unseen, but I could put together a nice Sunday drive with a good list.
As far as verifying stations unseen, the Maine site routinely does this. They have a core of people who have built a trust with each other. They, I believe, look up the data independently, but as long as they come up with corresponding data, they verify. I do believe that the first rule up there is to visibly site the station before it goes into the MSL.
Thank you for verifying stations.
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jasilva
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2007 10:07:33 PM
dickc49:
I've verified a few of your entries using the station locators (e.g. Exxon, Mobil, etc.) and some I recognized as being right off Rte 128. I hope the GM Admin 'deities' don't chastise me for using station locators :-)
Of course the other way to gather this info is from another site that has almost all ~160,000 stations in the NPA 2006 list -- I mean double-check the stations ... ;-) [It looks like many of the same ones you entered are there!!]
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2007 2:26:23 PM
I have done much the same with the MSL, and am now trying to get into the out of the way corners once in a while to find the rest around here. I do notice that Salem and Lynn need some work. I plan on doing a little driving, stopping, driving in Salem and Lynn so as to have time to write safely. I wonder if there is a reasonably accurate list somewhere of gas stations. The state keeps track of underground tanks, but a lot of those are oil tanks. Local cities and town have a dept of weights and measures that must certify the pumps once a year. There has to be a accessible government list of stations. IF we could figure that out it would be easier to get them all.
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jasilva
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2007 1:35:15 PM
dickc49 writes:
> IF you can help, please enter stations to the MSL
I've already added MOST of the ones I see in my normal daily commuting and such in the North Shore area. I'll take a look at some of the ones you recently added (not sure I can tell because GB.com doesn't give us an indicator of WHEN MSL entries have been added/modified). I was just up in 'your area' of Beverly/Danvers on Father's Day going for seafood at Farnhams in Essex.
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2007 11:49:54 AM
I added a station in Danvers, and about 6 in Beverly. I will add some more as I have time and nice weather to scout them out. I am trying to get the MSL to have correct info.
IF you can help, please enter stations to the MSL, and look over and verify any that you can. Some people are not willing to verify if they cannot physically see a station. There are other ways of doing it without physically seeing it.
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jasilva
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2007 11:20:38 AM
bugc: Have you been busy adding stations to the Boston MSL? I noticed that in less than a week the numbers have jumped from 549 to 565!!
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dickc49
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Message Posted: Jun 19, 2007 7:23:29 AM
bugc, I don't know. Do the two stations have phone numbers? I would try calling them and seeing what they consider themselves to be. I am willing to bet that you will get at least one "expert" on the borders at one of the stations.
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bugc
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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2007 10:28:36 PM
I tried this question on "Topic: Boston Master Station List" but it got burried in other stuff. I'll ask again here.
What are the borders of Allston and Brighton?
I'm guessing that Allston is north of the turnpike and Brighton starts at Packard's corner (Brighton and Commonwealth Aves), but is this correct? I've made this assumption for the proposed renaiming of the two "Boston - West" stations.
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 31, 2007 8:01:15 AM
GM has added the missing Weymouth to the Boston list, completing the requested changes.
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jasilva
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Message Posted: May 30, 2007 10:02:24 PM
redwagon29 writes:
> I don't think we are ever going to reach a conclusion that will satisfy everyone
That is why bugc, myself and others have been suggesting to JT and Co. that GB.com really become 'borderless' (like that 'other gas site'). It seems like some of the necessary pieces are starting to appear like the fact that you can [somewhat] seamlessly move from site to site, state to state on the Map Gas Prices page and now the MSL has all the MA cities and towns. The MSL appears to be a 'GB-wide' database so there is the possibilty that GB.com could provide this capability in the future! Our user logins already work on all GB.com sites so they could implement a 'single sign-on' type mechanism if they choose to spend the effort on it, etc. ...
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 30, 2007 6:51:22 AM
I like your suggestion redwagon29. I doubt it would be possible.
The Western Massachusetts suggestion was made independently in this topic.
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redwagon29
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Message Posted: May 29, 2007 10:07:33 PM
I don't think we are ever going to reach a conclusion that will satisfy everyone and everything. Even with the Boston list centralized to a loop around Boston, that leaves a town like Salisbury (on the NH border) and a town like Truro (way down on the cape) on the same Mass list. Either way, a commuter that lives on the North shore of boston outside of the "boston" region isn't going to be happy having to switch between two different sites. If anything, the site should be regrouped into an Eastern/Central and Western Massachusetts, though I don't know if that is entirely possible.
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 28, 2007 9:28:44 AM
The current Boston area (as revised) is depicted in this map.
[Edited by: bugc at 5/28/2007 9:29:37 AM EST]
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 20, 2007 4:59:31 PM
OK, I figured out what was reported. The 106 pages are what gets reported when you choose all of Massachusetts. The problem is we have no way to identify which locations need to be moved to a different site. I'll ask the admins to provide better info.
I checked all the Mass sites and found the following:
Site ------ # Pages - # stations
Boston ------- 54 ---- 540
Worcester --- 15 ---- 146
Springfield ---- 6 ----- 58
Mass (other) - 32 --- 316
[Edited by: bugc at 5/20/2007 5:04:12 PM EST]
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 20, 2007 9:12:04 AM
jasilva-
Where do we go with this work? Provide the admins with a list of before and after names? I presume these need to be linked to one of the sites so I am looking into the Worcester and Springfield list of towns. They both need a lot of work, but I don't want to define these also.
These changes also need to be made in the PMSL.
This whole discussion would be more appropriate on either the Mass site or in a main forum (either Talk Back, or Website Improvement).
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jasilva
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Message Posted: May 20, 2007 8:35:33 AM
More other 'problem' towns that need to be fixed (maybe moved in some cases):
Oak Bluffs (not on MSL list), Plainville (not on MSL list), Raynham Center (not a town), roxbury (lower case 'r'), Sagamore (not a town), South Boston (? was this one of the Boston ones?), South Dennis (not a town), South Easton (not a town), South Weymouth (not a town), South Yarmouth (not a town), Southborough (not on MSL list), Southwick (not on MSL list), Sterling (not on MSL list), Tyngsboro (spelled w/o -ough), Vineyard Haven (not a town), West Roxbury (? was this one of the Boston ones?), Westboro (spelled w/o -ough), Whitinsville (not a town), Yarmouth Port (not a town)
Also, Springfield (w/o - xx) stations are in list even though not on pull-down, with Worchester, the - xx variants are used for stations. The Springfield and Worchester sites need to determine if they want to keep these 'arbitrary' divisions.
[checked through 'W' through page 106].
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 20, 2007 7:48:30 AM
I discovered (not surprisingly) that the PMSL (mapping) list is also screwed up by the move. Details posted in this forum.
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 19, 2007 11:34:17 AM
Great work on the MSL issue jasilva!
I am submitting a list of "missing" towns from Eastern Massachusetts. I have just posted my preliminary list in this Forum Topic.
So far Weymouth is the only town I know was missed for the Boston area, but I will do more checking.
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jasilva
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Message Posted: May 19, 2007 9:29:13 AM
More other 'problem' towns that need to be fixed (maybe moved in some cases):
Georgetown (not on MSL list), georgetown (lower case 'g'), Groveland (not on MSL list), Hadley (not on MSL list), Hampden (not on MSL list), Hinsdale (not on MSL list), Holliston (not on MSL list), holliston (lower case 'h'), Hubbardston (is this a real town?), Indian Orchard (is this a real town?), Leicester (not on MSL list), Mansfield Center (not a town), Mashpee (not on MSL list), Mendon (not on MSL list), Millville (is this a real town?), North Andover (it IS a separate town from Andover!!), North Attleboro (MSL has it spelled North Attleborough), North Billerica (not a town), North Cambridge (not a town), North Dartmouth (not a town), North Eastham (not a town), North Easton (not a town), North Oxford (not a town), North Weymouth (not a town), Norton (not on MSL list)
[checked through 'N' on about page 67 of 106).
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jasilva
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Message Posted: May 19, 2007 3:34:57 AM
bugc:
Some other 'problem' towns that need to be fixed (maybe moved in some cases):
Aldenville/Chicopee, attleboro (lower case 'a' may mean it's not correctly linked to 'Attleboro'), billerica (lower case 'b'), Bondsville (?), Boston - South (1), Boston - West (2), Boxborough (not on MSL list), Brookfield (not on MSL list), Buzzards Bay (is this an official MA town?), Charlton (not on MSL list), Cherry Valley (??), Douglas (not on MSL list), East Boston (was this one of the 'special' Boston towns for the list?), East Brookfield (?), East Falmouth, East Taunton, Florence (missing from MSL list) ... [checked through 'F' on about page 33 of 106).
Also, does anyone care to have the Springfield - XX and Worchester - XX variants or should those be 'collapsed' like was done for Boston?
[Edited by: jasilva at 5/19/2007 3:39:58 AM EST]
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 18, 2007 7:17:35 PM
I was wrong in my previous reply. In this topic GM said it would be TB who would change the MSL town/city without changing verification.
I found 2 stations in "Boston - West" by searching using the other field. It is also easy to see the address by clicking on MSL map balloons. We will need to check all the Boston-xx variants, but there are very few stations involved.
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jasilva
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Message Posted: May 18, 2007 6:23:32 PM
bugc:
Thanks! I see that North Reading is in the Boston home page pull-down list (whatever list that is called). This is GOOD because this means that North Reading prices will now work with the Google Gadget that TB created!!
If you haven't tried this yet check out this thread on RSS price feeds
I'll have to double-check the entries on the MSL to see what you mean about stations that were listed in the Boston-xx variants ... Of course when we do these updates we would end up resetting verification flags. Hopefully if JT does them he would NOT update the verifitcation flags!!
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 18, 2007 8:48:04 AM
The drop down lists are now working.
jasilva- You now have North Reading! GM actually did this, not JT.
We now need to track down a few MSL references and get them fixed. Change the Boston - West listings to Allston or Brighton, etc. (JT does that.)
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jasilva
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Message Posted: May 18, 2007 6:56:23 AM
bugc: Thanks for pursuing this! It's nice that GB (JT) actually got to this!!
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 18, 2007 12:19:23 AM
The list was updated today. The drop down lists are correct on the MSL but have not been yet updated on the home page (2 lists). The [more cities] list is correct.
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bugc
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Message Posted: May 13, 2007 7:54:51 AM
I have requested that the admins start these changes.
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dickc49
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Message Posted: May 5, 2007 7:43:48 PM
This is the answer I put forth in the Mass discussion group:
I grew up in Topsfield, and now live in Peabody. I have always felt disconnected from Boston. I do not feel that Peabody, Lynn, Saugus etc belong grouped with Boston. They are in Essex county, and should list with the other cities and towns in Essex county. I would drastically shrink the Boston site, by removing most towns that do not border Boston.
I would really like to see a unified database behind all of the sites in Massachusetts. If you were to post a gas price anywhere in Mass, it should be stored on a master database. Then link all the sites, Boston, Worcester, Springfield, and the Mass site to the database. If you post in any of the sites, you should be able to pull up the data in any of the other sites. The computing power, as well as the bandwidth is available to run this, and will get cheaper and cheaper. This would make it a moot point as to where each city or town "should" go, as you could build your own custom list in any of the sites.
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bugc
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Message Posted: Apr 28, 2007 7:06:59 AM
Here is the new list proposed for the Boston area:
Abington
Allston
Andover
Arlington
Avon
Bedford
Belmont
Beverly
Billerica
Boston
Braintree
Brighton
Brookline
Burlington
Cambridge
Canton
Carlisle
Charlestown
Chelsea
Cohasset
Concord
Danvers
Dedham
Dorchester
Dover
East Boston
Everett
Framingham
Hanover
Hingham
Holbrook
Hull
Hyde Park
Jamaica Plain
Lexington
Lincoln
Lynn
Lynnfield
Malden
Marblehead
Mattapan
Medfield
Medford
Melrose
Middleton
Millis
Milton
Nahant
Natick
Needham
Newton
North Reading
Norwell
Norwood
Peabody
Quincy
Randolph
Reading
Revere
Rockland
Roslindale
Roxbury
Salem
Saugus
Scituate
Sharon
Sherbom
Somerville
South Boston
Stoneham
Stoughton
Sudbury
Swampscott
Tewksbury
Wakefield
Walpole
Waltham
Watertown
Wayland
Wellesley
West Roxbury
Weston
Westwood
Wilmington
Winchester
Winthrop
Woburn
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bugc
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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2007 3:52:55 PM
I'll post the requested changes here and then notify the admins through a "contact us" message. I'll probably get to it during the weekend.
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jasilva
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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2007 7:23:52 AM
nds writes:
> What is needed to actually make it happen
Good question!!! I'm not sure how to get JT/GM 'the admins' attention such that they would actually DO something about this (according to what we've agreed upon)!! Is there an 'official channel' for this kind of stuff or is it just to use the 'Contact Us' page and hope that they listen and do something about it sometime this year???
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nds
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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2007 10:57:11 PM
I think that would be good (including Framingham and Sudbury to connect the two yellow regions on the map). What is needed to actually make it happen, including updating the pull down lists to include all the designated towns?
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bugc
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2007 3:34:11 PM
Thanks 1Visitor. The existing Boston area and also the "cleaned up version" generally extends one or two towns beyond the 128 belt, with the exception of a few towns in the North Shore / Cape Ann area.
You can see the current proposal by looking at
L=http://users.rcn.com/als62/GB/Boston2.gif] this map [/L]
this map
including the yellow band and adding Framingham and Sudbury.
[Edited by: bugc at 4/21/2007 3:39:20 PM EST]
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1Visitor
Champion Author
Boston
Posts:10,315
Points:1,924,760
Joined:Jul 2004
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2007 10:45:54 AM
The Boston area should be any city/town within the 128 belt drawn right out to the coast. That includes approximately 500 gas stations. If all are posted to the Boston site, it would make one heck of a list!!
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